In “Anti Depressive Massage for Artists” artists are given a relaxing massage while a guided conversation is conducted about their personal perceptions on art and life. A physical format is established and repeated for each session: Wretman's hands on the artist's upper torso, skin to skin, their head framed and reorientated from the action by the massage table's hole facing downward. These two conditions create a circumstance that is both embodied and disembodied, a unique interplay between mind and body that disrupts accepted expectations of 'an artist's talk'.